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	<title>Comments on: Postmodernization of Design in Urban Space</title>
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	<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space</link>
	<description>Committees exist to share blame.</description>
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		<title>By: [MPF] MentalPolyphonics.com &#187; Guerrilla Gardening Ideology</title>
		<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space/comment-page-1#comment-48319</link>
		<dc:creator>[MPF] MentalPolyphonics.com &#187; Guerrilla Gardening Ideology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Plant: flowers. This is based on a standard Romanticism preference for plants over the man-made stuff in cities. This motivation could be related to graffiti and an attempt to wrest control of the urban aesthetic. The problem is that beautification needs to be done with some art to be aesthetically pleasing to the majority and it&#8217;s not obvious that guerrillas can outperform city workers with a reasonable beautification program. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Plant: flowers. This is based on a standard Romanticism preference for plants over the man-made stuff in cities. This motivation could be related to graffiti and an attempt to wrest control of the urban aesthetic. The problem is that beautification needs to be done with some art to be aesthetically pleasing to the majority and it&#8217;s not obvious that guerrillas can outperform city workers with a reasonable beautification program. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space/comment-page-1#comment-48107</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mentalpolyphonics.com/?p=863#comment-48107</guid>
		<description>I think I was against graffiti until I started thinking about it more theoretically.

The subject matter of tagging is very narcissistic, but it&#039;s the context that makes it interesting. Installation art, if you will. The cultural aspect is also interesting, although hard to fully comprehend for someone raised in middle-class suburbs.

But I&#039;m sure it&#039;s also that I &lt;em&gt;worship&lt;/em&gt; cities and needed to find ways of reducing the cognitive dissonance from graffiti. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I was against graffiti until I started thinking about it more theoretically.</p>
<p>The subject matter of tagging is very narcissistic, but it&#8217;s the context that makes it interesting. Installation art, if you will. The cultural aspect is also interesting, although hard to fully comprehend for someone raised in middle-class suburbs.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s also that I <em>worship</em> cities and needed to find ways of reducing the cognitive dissonance from graffiti. <img src='http://mentalpolyphonics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space/comment-page-1#comment-48105</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mentalpolyphonics.com/?p=863#comment-48105</guid>
		<description>Or another of my favorite observations: graffiti doesn&#039;t get graffitied over (and when it does you can ignore it).

Hipsters would love to live and/or work in a building that a pro graf artist re-painted, say, once a month. It&#039;s not urban decay: it&#039;s an authentic amenity!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or another of my favorite observations: graffiti doesn&#8217;t get graffitied over (and when it does you can ignore it).</p>
<p>Hipsters would love to live and/or work in a building that a pro graf artist re-painted, say, once a month. It&#8217;s not urban decay: it&#8217;s an authentic amenity!</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space/comment-page-1#comment-48103</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mentalpolyphonics.com/?p=863#comment-48103</guid>
		<description>There seems to be a difference between graffiti and tagging. But that gets into &quot;what is art?&quot; which is more a post than a comment.

There&#039;s not really a rigorous argument to be made in favor graffiti. Cleaning it is 100% tax deductible, I&#039;m sure.

But I suppose the lack of argument &lt;em&gt;for&lt;/em&gt; it is part of the point. If you buy the Apollonian (logical/orderly/civic) versus Dionysian (emotional/chaotic/orgiastic) conceptual division then graffiti is squarely Dionysian.

But that divide is no match for consumerism. The main reason to become a graffiti artist now is to develop a brand.

Oh, and like Jared points out: the easiest way to avoid graffiti is to avoid covering buildings in canvas. Look at the floral-print-wall-paper electrical boxes in downtown Victoria. The old ladies are happy and the kids won&#039;t waste their ink on something so low-contrast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be a difference between graffiti and tagging. But that gets into &#8220;what is art?&#8221; which is more a post than a comment.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s not really a rigorous argument to be made in favor graffiti. Cleaning it is 100% tax deductible, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>But I suppose the lack of argument <em>for</em> it is part of the point. If you buy the Apollonian (logical/orderly/civic) versus Dionysian (emotional/chaotic/orgiastic) conceptual division then graffiti is squarely Dionysian.</p>
<p>But that divide is no match for consumerism. The main reason to become a graffiti artist now is to develop a brand.</p>
<p>Oh, and like Jared points out: the easiest way to avoid graffiti is to avoid covering buildings in canvas. Look at the floral-print-wall-paper electrical boxes in downtown Victoria. The old ladies are happy and the kids won&#8217;t waste their ink on something so low-contrast.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space/comment-page-1#comment-48101</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mentalpolyphonics.com/?p=863#comment-48101</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m such a &lt;strong&gt;square&lt;/strong&gt;.  I see graffiti as vandalism and my desire to clean it up is only bested by my desire to see the perpetrators sentenced to clean it up as community service.

Yes, I can (and sometimes do) appreciate the artistry of the graffiti itself, just not the fact that it is violation of property rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m such a <strong>square</strong>.  I see graffiti as vandalism and my desire to clean it up is only bested by my desire to see the perpetrators sentenced to clean it up as community service.</p>
<p>Yes, I can (and sometimes do) appreciate the artistry of the graffiti itself, just not the fact that it is violation of property rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space/comment-page-1#comment-48099</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think a premodern reaction to modernism might actually count as postmodernism, but I&#039;m not sure about that. And come on, there&#039;s &lt;em&gt;always&lt;/em&gt; an intention. ;)

Nietzsche held that the highest forms of art combine Apollonian and Dionysian aesthetics, so that would suggest that &quot;defaced&quot; modernist things are win.

Isn&#039;t the impermanence part of the art? I dunno, I was using mailboxes as an example because I knew I could find photos of them. Forsyth had all sorts of example photos in her talk but especially dumpsters (although that might have been a nod to the conference theme).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a premodern reaction to modernism might actually count as postmodernism, but I&#8217;m not sure about that. And come on, there&#8217;s <em>always</em> an intention. <img src='http://mentalpolyphonics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Nietzsche held that the highest forms of art combine Apollonian and Dionysian aesthetics, so that would suggest that &#8220;defaced&#8221; modernist things are win.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t the impermanence part of the art? I dunno, I was using mailboxes as an example because I knew I could find photos of them. Forsyth had all sorts of example photos in her talk but especially dumpsters (although that might have been a nod to the conference theme).</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://mentalpolyphonics.com/posts/postmodernization-of-design-in-urban-space/comment-page-1#comment-48098</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mentalpolyphonics.com/?p=863#comment-48098</guid>
		<description>Graffiti is ancient. They did it in Rome blah blah blah. We all know this stuff. But yeah: the act itself is premodern.

Graffiti on modernist spaces could just be a premodern reaction to an artistic form that doesn&#039;t fit in the artists&#039; world view. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s an intention there (not that you were implying that), except maybe with someone like Banksy.

Nietzsche says the rejection of the Apollonian in favour of the Dionysian is &lt;em&gt;the way, the truth, and the light&lt;/em&gt; (paraphrased). Graffiti could be seen as a case of that. It all runs into that idea that philosophy describes the interests of academics and all of the normal people just don&#039;t care.

And the problem with hitting up Canada Post boxes is that them buff them nice an&#039; regular. Unless, I suppose, they just get rusty... or aren&#039;t in Oak Bay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graffiti is ancient. They did it in Rome blah blah blah. We all know this stuff. But yeah: the act itself is premodern.</p>
<p>Graffiti on modernist spaces could just be a premodern reaction to an artistic form that doesn&#8217;t fit in the artists&#8217; world view. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s an intention there (not that you were implying that), except maybe with someone like Banksy.</p>
<p>Nietzsche says the rejection of the Apollonian in favour of the Dionysian is <em>the way, the truth, and the light</em> (paraphrased). Graffiti could be seen as a case of that. It all runs into that idea that philosophy describes the interests of academics and all of the normal people just don&#8217;t care.</p>
<p>And the problem with hitting up Canada Post boxes is that them buff them nice an&#8217; regular. Unless, I suppose, they just get rusty&#8230; or aren&#8217;t in Oak Bay.</p>
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